Our podcast, The Center, has a new episode! In this episode, we ask: how do we speak with children? We sit down with Greentrike’s Learning Experiences Director Alyssa Tongue, and find out about the science, the practice, and the reality of speaking and sitting with children.
Transcription below:
SHAUN (narrating):
Let’s start this one with a story.
(music)
Back in 1998, Colombia social scientist Carol Dweck conducted a little experiment. She began going into elementary schools in New York, and asking kids to solve a basic puzzle. When the child finished, she’d say one of two things. She’d either tell the child good job, or she’d tell the child that they worked very hard on that. Then, later on, she would come back and ask the same students to complete another puzzle. Only this time, there were two puzzles to choose from – one that was very similar to the first, or one that was a little harder. Of the kids that were told good job, 90% of them chose a similar puzzle, while the kids that were told they worked hard overwhelming picked the more challenging puzzle. She did this to over 400 children, across multiple demographics, and every time it was the same. Why? What’s so different about “good job,” and “I noticed”? And what does it tell us about how we speak with children? Well…it tells us a lot.
You’re listening to The Center, brought to you by Greentrike. In this episode, we ask: How do we speak with children?
(Music fades out)
SHAUN (narrating):
Dweck’s experiment led to a concept called “growth mindset,” and it was a big deal. Essentially, it says that children view intelligence as a fixed trait, you’re either smart or you’re not. But, hard work is something that can improved upon. It’s a little more fluid. Eventually, growth mindset became something taught to child care professionals everywhere, including here at The Center. I bring this up because it’s a really good example of the specificity it can take to speak with children. And specificity can be a little intimidating, and, I don’t know if you know this, but some people have a hard time speaking with children. And, of course, when I say some, I mean most of America.
(Clips of various television comedies making fun of how hard it is to speak with children. The Simpsons, SNL, Park’s and Rec.)
SHAUN (narrating):
How do we fix this? It’s hard to say. But, I do know that the teachers and staff at The Center do a phenomenal job, so I met up with Alyssa Tongue, teacher, parent, and our learning experiences director, to figure out how we speak with children at the center, and to get any tips for the world at large.
ALYSSA:
I have found that sometimes we as adults can talk too much. And so, I think in my time as an educator and a parent, it really has called me accountable to the words that I use with children, and that every word matters and that sometimes the most effective way that I can be in conversation and support of a child as a learner in that moment is to say nothing at all. And I know that sounds harsh, but I think sometimes our inquisitive questions in children play can derail them from the ownership of the experience that they’re having. And, even with a well poised question of, “Ah Shaun, I see that you’re building with blocks, what are you going to build next” may make you think, “I’m done with blocks, goodbye.” Whereas if I had not intervened in that moment, you may have been engaged for a long time. So, we spend a lot of time as educators and parents thinking about that too, “How, if I approach this situation, will my words help or hinder the child with what they’re trying to accomplish in this moment.”…. I think we’re really quick to say smart, or good job, and we as adults have an intention and a purpose for why we wanted to share that remark for hopefully some guidance and positive reinforcement for that choice or that behavior. But for the child, they’re thinking “oh, good job? What is that, a good job?”…. I think if we’re seeing the child as competent or capable, when they encounter tension or conflict, or a challenge in their day, so often as adults we are thinking that, in our love and respect for these people, these young citizens that we get to have in our classrooms or in our home and community, my gosh I have to come in and solve the problem for you. I need to fix the socks for you. I need to restore this social exchange with a friend that is really troubling for both of you. And ultimately, that is showing children that we don’t see them as competent or capable because apparently when those moments arise, they need an adult to fix it. So, the language that we use with child helps them take on the identity of, “I am a problem solver, and I have this caring adult who is going to come alongside me and offer ideas, but ultimately is guiding me to solve my problems and offering tips and providing some scaffolding so I know I’m not left to hang by myself.” …. I think sometimes we as adults feel that – traditionally – our way of approaching children is to have this kind of direct instruction type of mentality, of, “I’m going to give you the lay of the land, step by step, and you’re going to follow it to the T.” And again, I think our approach is really sharing power in the developmental approach that we foster with children to say, “You know, your perspective and your theories of an idea are equally valuable to what I hold as an adult, and in the moments when we have the time and the space, how can we figure this out together?”…. I think as you get older there’s this expectation that with age comes wisdom, which is true, but it doesn’t mean that you have the whole world figured out. I love our value to maintain a perspective of life-long learning. So when you look at a 4 year old and see them as fully human and someone who can impart wisdom and knowledge and truth to you, however old you are, I think that shapes the way we engage with children.
SHAUN (narrating):
During my conversation with Alyssa, this theme kept creeping up, this idea that while it might seem obvious the child doesn’t know everything, neither do you. And sometimes, that’s the pressure, you know? Acknowledging that we don’t have all the answers. But if you can allow yourself to be aware and comfortable in that feeling…
ALYSSA:
It’s reciprocal, it’s a relationship. We don’t have to be all knowing or in control of the conversation, it can be a conversation, where there’s give and take and you don’t need to have all of the info or have it all figured out, so I think that first & foremost is a really important perspective.
(Dark music rises, a baby begins to cry. It gets louder and louder, and then shuts off.)
SHAUN (narrating):
Children are emotional. They have as much emotion as a fully grown adult in a fraction of the body space with a fraction of the coping mechanisms. So, outbursts happen. And those conversations are where the pressure of Dweck’s specificity feel most important. But, these are also the conversations where the adult may also be upset! And it’s frustrating to feel like you need to be on top of your diction when your child suddenly has a breakdown because they don’t like the socks they’re wearing and you needed to leave five minutes ago. What do you do?
ALYSSA:
I think in our talking and being and relating with children, it’s also an important factor that when we have some of those tough moments, we’ve had some really good moments prior to that too, where the child has had a lot of opportunities to have some shared ownership in what their day looks like. Maybe they had the choice to pick out their socks, a harking back of, “You know, you chose the blue socks today. I think tomorrow you’ll take this information to know that maybe your blue socks are not your coziest or your most comfortable, but I’m excited to see the choice that you’ll make tomorrow.” So, being able – we call it “firmth”. You’re firm and warm and understanding to what the child is expressing and understanding and feeling. So you’re still able to share that there are some boundaries – we need to leave – but you’re able to do so in a way that’s both compassionate and empathetic. It’s warm, but you’re also firm to what is needing to also happen.
(Music)
SHAUN (narrating):
I don’t know about you, but when I think about my childhood, I don’t think anyone spoke to me with this much care. That’s not a knock on my parents at all, by the way. Their parents certainly did not speak to them like this. It feels like the past is an echo chamber of being dismissive to children, of commanding them. It begs the question: what changed?
ALYSSA:
I think we live in a day and age where brain science is affirming what those of us who have been deeply embedded in early learning have known to be true in our souls for so long of sharing that children are far more capable than we’ve ever given them credit for …. And so, for me, I think it’s a gift to share time with children, because they are seeing everything. Things that we have tuned and pruned out of our brains, and so to take a genuine interest in what they’re seeing and experience, it selfishly teaches us too, to be perfectly honest, in addition to helping our life experience with children as well. So I don’t think it’s a new way of thinking per-say, but I think we have a lot more just thought and intention and science to back it up. And there’s a lot more open conversation and dialogue around the importance of these early interactions with children. I mean, historically if you look at the job market that our children would enter into, as well, the types of jobs were very different. It was more of an industrial, you do need to follow step by step instructions and have someone guide you there, but now I feel like we’re more in a collaborative environment for future employment too. And not to say that we just wait for children to grow up and turn 18 before we think of them as contributing citizens, children are contributing right now.
(Music)
SHAUN (narrating):
From the classroom, to the household, to the community, talking with children comes with multitudes of challenges and rewards. But, I mean, it’s the exact same way with adults, isn’t it? With anyone! Conversing with other humans can be challenging, no matter the age. When I wrapped up my conversation with Alyssa, she had one more bit of advice to fit in:
ALYSSA:
You know, even coming from a background in early education or working alongside children is something that you do for your profession, or read a lot of books for guidance as a parent, mistakes are going to be made. You are going to say things that you didn’t wish you had said, you are going to say them in a tone of voice that you wish was maybe warmer and not as harsh, and I think one of the greatest gifts we can give to children too, in addition to seeing them as really strong capable individuals, is that when we make mistakes, to own up to that. And to share it, like, “Wow, I used a loud voice, and there’s another way I could have had that conversation with you. I apologize for using a loud voice.” And having some opportunity to share how we were thinking or feeling, but to have that moment to show that mistakes happen – I may have used words that I didn’t mean to – and to model how to have restoration in those moments is another powerful gift that we can share with children of, “I’m gonna try better next time. I lost my cool in that moment, and I appreciate you knowing me and knowing that that’s not how I want to have a conversation with you.”
SHAUN (narrating):
Speaking with children is an opportunity to speak with ourselves in a way. Dweck’s specificity is real, but mistakes will be made, and that shouldn’t scare you. So smile at a kid at the grocery store. Ask your friend’s child how their day is. Let your child figure out a puzzle without saying anything. And maybe, just try to see the kids-are-annoying bits in comedies as the boring tropes they are. Kids are cool. You just have to listen.
(Music)
Alright, that’s it for this episode of The Center, I want to thank our guest Alyssa Tongue for her time and expertise. If you’re interested in more on Carol Dweck and growth mindset, she has like a hundred TED Talks on YouTube, click any random one and I promise you’ll learn something fascinating. Music this week was by Nate Keefe & Beatmower as well as Doug Maxwell. My name’s Shaun Parker, and we’ll see you next time, on The Center.
